It’s interesting to me how a species has become so arrogant. We know so little about what we know for a fact exists.. but we defy the option that what we don’t know about could exist.
Whether you like it or not, everyone is ignorant. Even atheists.
Of course we are all ignorant sometimes. What is your point? There are some things that can be proven by science, and other things that cannot. I don’t see why I should be looked down upon for not believing something that cannot be proven.
My point is that we are all *very* ignorant about a lot of things we all claim to believe.
I believe by faith. You lack faith. Neither of us knows for a fact which one is right but apparently, at least one of us thinks they do.
It just isn’t me. I’m perfectly fine with admitting that I don’t know it all because I’m aware of the fact that atheists don’t either.
Of course I don’t know everything. My beliefs are based on the information that I have seen thus far- that’s why in another conversation I asked a Christian to offer me proof of God and told him that, if undeniable evidence were presented, I would probably believe God exists. That doesn’t mean I would worship him- but I would not deny undeniable evidence if it existed. But I spent 24 years of my life as a Christian searching for this proof, and I have talked with countless people on this issue and studied it for myself, and I have yet to see any evidence that is concrete. And the small amount of vague evidence that people cite can be used to support any belief, not just Christianity.
Until this undeniable proof is presented to me, I think I am justified in being confident in my position, just as it is reasonable for me to not believe that Loki or fairies exist. I am just as confident about unicorns not existing as I am about god not existing- because I see no concrete evidence for either. Show me irrefutable proof and I’ll change my mind!
I could say the same to you. 😉
That’s the problem with this debate. It’s a waste of perfectly good minds, such as I’ve no doubt yours probably is.
The first one us to die will be the first to know for a fact whether or not God exists.
Unfortunately, dead people don’t talk.
The point of the meme I posted was to make people think. Why are Greek stories not seen as fact in our society, but Bible stories are? Asking tough questions like these should not be offensive. It does not insult anyone, unless saying that you are wrong is insulting in and of itself.
So it’s alright with you if people think that your meme wasn’t very efficacious?
The question is easy to answer.
If people still believed the Greek myths were true it would be rude to just dismiss them as fiction. Common courtesy to be respectful of others.
So I should say nothing to anyone who believes any random thing, and let them call anything they want non-fiction? What about people who believe in purple unicorns or that Elvis is still alive, or those who believe in unfounded conspiracy theories about our government being replaced with shape-shifting aliens? Would you be ok with them saying that those things are factual and not ever say that their beliefs are inaccurate? I will not call a myth fact just because it might offend someone’s well-meant but unfounded beliefs.
I respect individuals and their RIGHT to their beliefs- but I do not need to respect or tiptoe around the beliefs themselves. I’m sure you would not respect a Muslim’s belief that killing women is ok, even if you respect the individual and his right to his own beliefs. Challenging commonly held beliefs is how societies grow- when questioning and challenging ceases, societies become stagnant. When no one dares to challenge religion and it’s rules, that’s when the Dark Ages happen and the Middle East becomes the norm. If no one dared to call it a myth instead of fact, science would never have progressed this far and neither would civil rights.
If something is true, then challenges shouldn’t be threatening or offensive because it should be easy to make the challenger foolish. That’s why no one cares if anyone says gravity isn’t real- because it’s so easy to prove otherwise.
Science was born and prospered in the most christian society on earth. Reverend Martin Luther King also moved civil rights forward. Its the belief in real morality that motivates people to do great things. I would recommend you listen to some of his sermons if you want to understand his motivations:
There is nothing challenging about your post. It comes up again and again. This along with comparisons of the Christian God to fairies and leprechauns is intended to embarrass Christians.
Let me see if you are at all objective. Do you see any reason to think the Christian God might exist even if Zeus does not exist? What about comparing the Christian God to fairies? What do you think? Can you possibly part ways with your atheist brothers and sisters or are you towing the party line through and through?
Sorry for not replying sooner, I started a new job and I’ve been working lots of hours.
The comparison of your god to fairies or leprechauns is not meant as an insult in and of itself, it is simply a reasonable comparison from my point of view. I see no concrete proof for ANY mystical deities or figures, whether they be fairies or gods that people worship. People have firmly believed in many mystical/supernatural figures and have believed they had proof, and most would decry all others as false. So why should they not be lumped together in one group? It seems you are offended because I do not grant your specific beliefs special privileges over other beliefs that I consider to be incorrect; I’m sorry, but I will not go against my own beliefs and say your religion has more merit than others just to make you feel better. If I am to “part ways” with my atheist brothers and sisters, you must provide solid evidence that their line of thought is incorrect. Until then I am happy to stay on the side that I see as most reasonable. 🙂
If undeniable, concrete proof was offered that a god existed, I would certainly admit that he exists. I am a reasonable person. However, I have yet to see any such proof. But even if a god was proven to exist, there would also have to be evidence given that he is the god YOU worship and not some other deity- otherwise your specific religion still does not have validation.
So let me as you this- why shouldn’t I compare your god to fairies and Zeus? What evidence do you have for your god that believers in other supernatural beings cannot also claim? Until you can satisfactorily answer this, then my comparison being an insult is just your own sensitivity.
Hello I am glad you are blogging again.
I asked you a few questions to see if I could get some of your real thoughts on the issue – to the extent you raise the issue. Its really not a pressing issue that I think needs to be discussed. I am just wondering if you will walk lockstep with every atheist and post the same propaganda, or if you will indeed express your own thoughts.
I don’t agree with everything that all atheists say or believe- but there are many things that many atheists do happen to agree on. I don’t see it as propaganda anymore than your religious blogs could be considered propaganda. When I post these things I filter out what I don’t agree with- eg I don’t agree with the argument that evil in the world means god cannot exist because that is not logical. Some atheists think that way- I do not. There are things I specifically do not post here because I don’t like or agree with them, even though other atheists do. Some articles I post here because they are thought provoking- I may not be 100% sure where I stand on it, but I like the way the author makes their case.
If you feel that the things I post are “propaganda”, then you don’t have to subscribe to my blog. I’m an atheist- I share atheist stuff, just like you share Christian stuff.
That is good to hear that you think things through for yourself. I don’t agree with all the other Christians either. I tend to hate slogans and soundbites. So when I see them I often try to challenge people to think beyond them.
I follow your blog and just about every atheist blog I can find because I like to discuss some of these issues. Christians sometimes like to discuss them too. But I like to hear from people who disagree with my views. I realize not everyone likes that. If you don’t want me posting disagreeable stuff, I can stop following your blog. I won’t be insulted nor will I childishly think you are “afraid” of the arguments i make. I know disagreements are not everyone’s cup of tea.
Thinking for myself was a long, hard journey- I was raised not to do so. I enjoy digging deeper into things; however, I will be honest and tell you that sometimes I just don’t have the energy for a debate lol. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t post here, but on issues that we’re both pretty set on, sometimes debating on those issues is more exhaustive than productive. If we’re hitting a wall, better to stick to topics where the conversation is getting somewhere useful. I hope I haven’t caused offense, it’s certainly not my intent- I don’t mind our conversations. But I’m working 50-60 hour weeks now, so I have to choose wisely how I spend my “debating time and energy”, if you will. 🙂 I do appreciate your understanding of my intentions.
Yes, of course, I understand. Even I can get tired of it sometimes. It’s hard to find time.
I consider a fruitful conversation one where I learn something or think about something new or in a new way. I am also just interested in what other people think and I like to compare what they think to how I think. Like you I am not interested in rehashing old debates that have been beat to death unless there is something new brought up.
Anyway never feel like you need to respond. I ask allot of questions but I understand people don’t always have the time to answer them.
Thank you for your understanding. I agree with your definition of a fruitful conversation, I look forward to those. I have debated the abortion issue so many times that it feels rather redundant, hence my feeling that this particular thread wasn’t going anywhere. 🙂
Those of us who are Freethinkers walk right into these pointless debates. There can be moments of respectful disagreement. But those who have chosen one deity over another will never be convinced. No one has a dramatic “conversion” to non-theism anyway. I only see change coming gradually as it did for me, over years. And. . .on this good post, I find it amusing whenever I present the fact that every person IS an atheist. . http://beyondgod.wordpress.com/2012/10/21/you-are-an-atheist-yes-you-are/. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
I read your piece. You have the law in the US wrong. Also I don’t think it’s reasonable to think that if one God people claim exists does not exist, then it must follow that no God exists.
You’re right, just because one god does not exist doesn’t mean others might not. However I have seen no concrete evidence for any of them- until I do, they are all in the same category for me. Which law do I have wrong?
I was responding to naturechaplain based on the link he provided.
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